What was the weight of the golden plates from which Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon?

If the material was pure gold, then the plates would be too heavy given the dimensions. But Joseph gets away with it, by having the description of the plates as the 'appearance' of gold. Regardless, we have the description from some of the witnesses, which ranges the book weighing I believe mostly from 40-60lbs. Someone, I can't remember who, I'll look it up for you, said the book felt as if it were made from common tin. Common tin also matches the dimensions and would weigh about the amount that the witnesses described.

Joseph Smith also had seer stones, different from the spectacles that were considered the urim and thummim artifacts. The seer stones were smaller, and he usually put one in the hat, and translated the book without needing to have the book in the room. He found the seer stones when he was a little kid, which are rocks that kids give magical properties to. He used to look for stuff with his dad when he was younger. Then we he got a little older, he used those seer stones to see treasures buried beneath the ground, guarded by the nasty native american treasure spirits!

So the entire story behind the plates, is so much more fulfilling than actually reading what Joseph 'translated' from the plates. The story of how he was to get them, how he got them, what happened after he got them, who tried to take it from him, and then the actual translation process, the angel taking back the plates...it's great stuff!

Wow nephihah, spare us atheists the self-righteous monologuing. We can do the same thing with our little group of "non-believers"...but listing out others to somehow further my own self-righteousness is not one of my fortes. I'm glad you pride yourself on using others' successes to push yourself higher on your horse, good for you.

How many people have been killed in the name of their god? Billions. People slaughtered. Men, women, children. What about killed in the name of the christian god? How many do you think? How about the muslim god? How many nephi? You seem to want to judge us all as atheists because some other psychotic prick decided to abuse their power, so why shouldn't I judge you for the men slaughtered in the name of your god? Or are mormons just that special, that their god isn't the same god that slaughtered first borns in egypt because some man wasn't listening? Should I really blame you for the ones responsible for the mountain meadows massacre? Oh, I forgot, you're one of the few mormons on this site that still denies those who were responsible were mormons...

Spare us the hypocritical viewpoint.

Here's some info about the 'gold plates':

It is very possible that the witnesses to the Book of Mormon may have been shown some plates cut from a sheet of rolled metal which had been coated with gold or something that had the "appearance of gold." Joseph Smith said that each plate was "not quite so thick as common tin." (History of the Church, vol. 4, p. 537) Martin Harris, on the other hand, maintained that "each of the plates was thicker than the thickest tin." David Whitmer felt that they were about as thick as "common tin used by tinsmiths." Mormon apologists might argue that if the plates had only been coated in some way to give them the appearance of gold, the person who made the "engravings" on them would have had a problem convincing others that they were genuine. The tool used to make the engravings would cut down into the metal below and expose the fact that the plates were not really made of gold. Apostle Orson Pratt, however, made a rather strange statement about some type of stain being on the plates where the engraving appeared: "They [the witnesses] describe these plates as being about the thickness of common tin... Upon each side of the leaves of these plates there were fine engravings, which were stained with a black, hard stain, so as to make the letters more legible and easier to be read." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 30-31) Such a "black, hard stain" could, of course, prevent the witnesses from noticing that the color of the metal in the engraved portions was different from the rest of the plates.

The person who did the calculation of 156 lbs took his weight measurements using how much a solid block of pure gold of that size would weigh. This is incorrect.

Joseph Smith describes a book of gold leafs bound together with rings. So, you have to factor in the air between the leafs of the book as well. Take a hardcover book off your book shelf. It weighs less than it would if it were a solid block of wood.

The anti-Mormon who conducted the 156 lbs weight measurement also didn't factor in the composition of the metal in the book. Pure gold is a very soft metal. So soft in fact, that it wouldn't even work for writing on anyway. The book would be unusable if it were pure gold. Most metalurgists who have been consulted on this point would agree that to have a useable book of leafs of gold, you would have to use a gold-copper or gold-tin alloy. These alloys are significantly lighter than pure gold (which has a high density for a metal - almost like lead). As such, Joseph Smith's book probably was not pure gold - and the 156 lbs weight measurement would be incorrect.

A more realistic weight measurement would be in the range of 60-80 lbs - definitely something you could move around and even hike through the woods with - if you were a strong 6 foot backwoods farmer.

You've also misquoted Joseph Smith. He never said other people would die if they saw the plates. Here's the actual quote:

"I should not show them to any person; neither the breastplate with the Urim and Thummim; only to those to whom I should be commanded to show them; if I did I should be destroyed."

No danger to others - just a danger to Joseph Smith himself.

Your statements about the witnesses seeing the plates only with their "spiritual eyes" are contradicted by other accounts we have from them as documented here:

http://en.fairmormon.org/Book_of_Mormon/Witnesses/...

and here:

http://en.fairmormon.org/Book_of_Mormon/Witnesses/...

Of course, I have already read your stunningly intelligent rebuttal that anything that comes from a Mormon source must be automatically wrong. I suppose on this impressive line of logic you would also reject any book on American history written by an American.

The rest of your question is mainly composed of baseless ridicule and I see no reason to respond to it. The only thing I found truly impressive about your question here is how someone of your apparent mental capacity was even able to construct a coherent sentence at all.

Bravo.

Nah. Stylometry indicates that The Book of Mormon had at least three principal authors, and none of them was Joseph Smith, Jr.. The only explanation for it that satisfies all the evidence is the book's own explanation of itself. Normal, human men wrote it -- as prophets and inspired historians, mostly, though there are a few secular contributions here and there.

Where did you find the information the they had seen them in visions? Actually, the eleven people who saw the golden plates never denied seeing the plates even though some of them ended up leaving the church. Even when Martin Harries, one of the original 3 witnesses, was gotten so drunk by his friends that he didn't recognise his neighbour, still didn't say he made it up Check it out, those same people who said to had seen them in visions all signed the following statement:

"Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That Joseph Smith, Jun., the translator of this work, has shown unto us the plates of which hath been spoken, which have the appearance of gold; and as many of the leaves as the said Smith has translated we did handle with our hands; and we also saw the engravings thereon, all of which has the appearance of ancient work, and of curious workmanship. And this we bear record with words of soberness, that the said Smith has shown unto us, for we have seen and hefted, and know of a surety that the said Smith has got the plates of which we have spoken. And we give our names unto the world, to witness unto the world that which we have seen. And we lie not, God bearing witness of it."

It doesn't sound like you are actually going in this unbiased, which is unfortunate. Try reading the Book of Mormon for yourself and see what is in there. My guess is that you will be surprised.

The gold plates were described as having the appearance of gold, they weren't necessarily made out of gold, possibly some type of alloy.

The gold plates were also not a solid block of gold, in fact the pages were estimated to be about 0.02 inches thick, and were said to be "pliable like thick paper"

A number of people lifted the gold plates to estimate the weight, most estimates were between 30 - 60 lbs

Seems pretty consistant.

The size wouldn't represent how much it would weigh. What if you had things as light as a feather molded together with those dimensions? It wouldn't be heavy at all. Besides, think about the time period Joseph Smith was a part of. They did everything by hand so he was naturally strong.

I find it pathetic when people ask questions with the sole purpose of putting down a prophet of the Lord. Why don't you put down Abraham? Same thing.

No one claims that the plates were pure gold. Mayans had a copper/gold composite called Tumbaga that was widely used, and looked like gold. Mayans also knew how to make cement and stone boxes. They believe that a person could see the past and future through vision crystals. All of it is consistant with the story - that Moroni fled north from the land of his birth, somewhere in Mesoamerica, to escape those who would kill him, and buried the book and crystals in a stone box. Several people saw the plates and the angel Moroni. Their testimonies are consistant and credible.

The sheer volume of evidence would indicate that the Book of Mormon is authentic.

http://www.mormonvoice.com/index.php/book-of-mormo...

It seems to me that some people just cannot stand good news.

If Mormons are such imbeciles as you suggest, then why is it that it is a Mormon that invented Television, like the one that you are looking into right now?

Ewwhhh... how magical and superstitious you are for looking into "glass". And how creepy and mysterious you are for dimming the lights in your computer room...

Fact of the matter is everyone now days is familiar with the process that Joseph Smith went through as he translated the Gold Plates.

How many people have looked at their cellphone and shielded it with their hand, or shielded it with... a hat, so that the sun, or the lighting inside the house, does not make it more difficult to see?

There is nothing more miraculous that Joseph Smith did, than what Moses did. If there is a God, then God can do anything. Including divide the Red Sea, and including allow Joseph Smith the means to translate ancient writing.

Michio Kaku, world renowned physicist has written in his books, that given enough energy, many things can be done that at present cannot be done. The problem is the people who call themselves Atheists are often the most superstitious people that there are.

Science is about investigation, and using logic, not coming in with preconceived ideas.

Atheists murdered 2 million men, women, and children in Cambodia using clear plastic bags that they put over religious peoples faces. If Atheists are so superior why do you need to put plastic bags over peoples heads to prove your point?

Stalin Starved to death over 20 million people in Russia, because he was an Atheistic fanatic. And even he was out done by Mao Zedong of China, who murdered more than 80 million people, the soldiers using bayonets, typically. This was done after the people surrendered to the cowardly Atheist Monsters.

Why is it that it is was a Mormon, who has the longest winning streak on the television show Jeopardy, not an Atheist?

Why is it that Atheists have to convince others they are right by torturing and murdering them that they are right, and recent history has shown this to be so time again... while Mormons are polite, knock on a door, and if you don't want to talk that is quite alright?

Why have Atheist Fanatics throughout the world Murdered millions around the world, a sacrifice to their Atheist Non-God?

And they have done this over and over and over again, if the Atheist Fanatics hold the truth, why do they do this over and over again as soon as they take over a country's government completely?

If Atheism is so true, then why don't you move to North Korea... where your Atheist Hero, Kim Jung ILL rules... and the major source of protein is cannibalism?

You may think you are immortal and above God's judgment but you, and all the other Atheists are not. The day will come when you will be judged of your works, whether you lived a righteous life, or whether you lived a wicked life. And if you have not repented, then in that day God will cast you off.

And then we will see who is a clown, and who is not. Then will we see whether you and Pol Pot, and Kim Jung ILL, and Stalin, and Mao Zedong, and all the rest of the Atheists fanatics, will be able to mock those who follow the commandments of Jesus Christ.

You think this life will be a long time. When it is over, it will seem like a dream. And you will stand before your maker, whom you have denied, and whom you have mocked, and whom you tried to clown out, and He will judge you.

And like the Grace Fanatics, the Atheist Fanatics, will be cast into Outer Darkness unless they repent before the dreadful day of eternal Judgment. And that is your destiny, if you do not repent.

But you deny this.

You can also deny two plus two equals four. This does not mean it is so. Just because you deny the eternal Justice of God, does not mean you will not be subject to it, just as if you can deny gravity, yet you are subject to gravity whether or not you believe in it or not.

Mormons have invented many inventions including modern word processing that you used to type your question.

In The Book Of Mormon, it says fools mock, but they shall mourn. Truer words were never written.

If you're so smart you write a book that is read by 100's of millions throughout the world, and has a major impact on 100's of millions of others. And a major religion is the result of it, namely, THE Church Of JESUS CHRIST Of Latter Day Saints.

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