Ferbs

Within a month or so, our oldest son's first mom and her daughter (his sister) will be coming back to Canada. Her intentions are not to come back with their biological father and chances are he would be denied access due to having been deported.

Before she leaves, I would like to ask her take some pictures overseas so our son can have some visual on his biological dad's home country. Until we travel there as a family, that would be his only way of seeing where his other mom and sister lived. It's also a way to get him more connected to his heritage.

Question is: Should I ask for a family picture that includes the father? I definitely want some of his sister and mom (we have an open adoption and have recent ones of the sister but not them together).

He knows his bio father's name, who he is and the 7 year old friendly version of why he has never met him and also how that played into his first mom not raising him. He has also seen pictures of him already.

Given that his first mom doesn't really want the bio dad involved (and always made it clear to him that he is to stay clear of our son-better late than never I suppose) in her life, I don't know if I should ask her to do this family picture OR even if we should have one here.

Her judgement regarding life decisions isn't very logical. It's the reason she lost her parental rights. And although she wants to cast off the bio dad...he his her daughter's father too (and all she knows) and she was born there so things are definitely more complicated than she realizes (in suggesting she may not be able to raise her here...sigh). He sexually abused a daughter already and with her and her mom coming back...I am lost about how to expose our son to HER family without creating a romantic view of him.

I only thought of this today...haven't had a chance to discuss with DH but wanted some outside opinions.

Thanks everyone.

I've been getting more confused about adoptions in the UK in recent days. Specifically, the role of Social Services.

During the 6 weeks the natural parents have to make a decision to relinquish their parental rights...where does the child go? It's my understanding that PAPs are sought when a child is possibly going to be placed.

If adoption is the choice, how open can the adoption be?

If Social Services is the only authority of adoptions, does that contribute to the "abductions" of babies for PAPs? Meaning...they have control over what qualifies as "good parenting" AND they have access to the children AND they spend 6 weeks grooming an adoptive family?

I think other Canadians would generally agree that here, the children in care are not taken as babies for placement (meaning termination of parental rights). In fact, we seem to have a problem with languishing children. I concede that there are some abuses of course. This is in general terms.

Our son's first mum hated the system in the UK. She did her research. And some regulars here helped me forward more. She was badly treated by the social worker. Was told she would have little or no contact with her son if placed there. For her, bonding with her child while making a choice (which I agree with BTW), over 6 weeks and then being denied access after that seemed cruel.

So, to settle it in my mind...can someone clarify for me?

Many thanks, as always.

Each day, my mind goes over what NOT to do. I wonder if I'm missing signs or clues. I'm very thankful for the advice and info given by adoptees on this forum.

For those who feel there were positive attempts to handle things correctly for you as adoptees, could you please share what your adoptive family did, if anything, that at least helped with your upbringing as adopted children (at that time)?

I am trying to approach this from both a "what not to do" and a "what I should do" perspective.

Many thanks.

...on the weekend. This will be the first "live" contact for her and her son since he has been with us. We've been sending monthly pictures and videos as well as keeping contact with our personal blog but this will be most significant for her I'm sure.

What kinds of things should I expect? My concerns are how she will feel after and although I can't take away all the sadness, what can I do or not do during the video call that may be best?

I am hoping someone with experience (first visits etc...) can help me on this one.

Thanks everyone.

This has been a tough question to describe so I hope it's clear enough.

One of the most profound idea I've read since coming here is that telling an adopted child they were "given up because she loved you" can sure do a number of someone's idea of love and its association with being rejected/left.

What then, is the best way to explain to a child (as I'm thinking about adoption being part of a person's life from early childhood) that the person who relinquished did love them very much and that is why they felt adoption was the best choice for them.

For one of our sons-his first mom was losing rights to parent him and so chose to go the private route. He was in foster care and she wouldn't have "chosen" adoption otherwise. She wanted some say in who parented him.

But for the other-she went through a lot before, during and after his birth to do what she felt was best for him. There was a lot of love for him in her decision (I do understand the concept that it was based in the fear that she couldn't do it herself--thanks Minimouse for explaining to me :)). She was driven by this deep love and concern for his well-being (even though I believe she would have parented him beautifully and told her as much).

So how do you explain something like that to an adoptee? It seems so important in the balance of things. Saying she loved her child (so the child knows it wasn't casual) and having it all tied up in the feeling that love=being abandoned.

In the end-it's certainly up to the adopted person to interpret the events of their lives as they will. But it is so important for the APs to at least present these events accurately with sensitivity since the adoptive home is very likely the first place the adoptee will start to gain knowledge and understanding about their history.

Thanks everyone.

an adoptive parent should be allowed to access vital records for the adopted children? They are allowed to oversee and access medical and legal records for their dependent children, aren't they? Why can't they walk in to an office and gather this information for the adoptee?

Baby is doing mini crawls...and we have an awkward opening to the stairs (no railing on one side either). I think a free standing gate is the way to go but wondered if anyone has experience with them. Recommendations?

Thanks!

...for Shaw Communications' Together is Amazing Family Reunion contest? It shows an adoptee talking about the ultimate family reunion (or words to that effect is what uses) where he meets his biological family with his adoptive family.

I can usually Google my way pretty well but I can't find it online. (IF ANYONE DOES...PLEASE COPY IT HERE FOR ME.

If you have, what are your thoughts on it? Also...what do you think of a submission of an adoptive family going overseas to reunite an adopted child with the first mom for the first time?

My thoughts on that (naive as I am) is that it could show another side of adoption where an adoptee doesn't have to wait a lifetime to know their original family.

Here is a write up on the contest info.

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Newsfeed/...

I searched passed questions and didn't see this posted in recent years...

Who here is in an Open adoption? APs, first parents and adoptees...and if you don't mind saying...to what degree?

Thank you everyone.

between honouring the unique relationship between an adoptee and their first parents vs. wanting to support the process?

I've been trying to think on how to word this question and I'm afraid the above is still cryptic. I will illustrate with an example.

In an open adoption where the child/adoptee can ask the first mom anything they want and "work out" their feelings...it may very well turn out that the adoptee verbalizes strong feelings of resentment etc... to any of their parents. How can an AP who sympathizes with the first mum (to the extent that she considers her a kind person with her own personal justifications for choosing adoption) help the adoptee?

I wouldn't want my kids to vilify their first mums yet it's their adoption experience. I don't think that a relationship between an adoptee and the first parent is completely separate from the adoptive family ONLY because being supportive (or not) does have an impact. However, I do believe the APs need to give the adoptee the space they need.

It's tough to try and make sure the entire picture is explained without compromising an adoptee's journey to their truth.

I'm especially interested in how to handle this with someone...say...under 14. Adoptive parents want to guide their children as much as anyone...but how do we not stand in the way?

Thanks everyone.

We have recently heard from our son's first mom. It's been months and it was good to hear from her. In her email, she spoke of returning to Canada in the spring, with her daughter (our son's biological sister). This is a relief because their father is a convicted sex offender who was deported and having another daughter in his care is worrisome to say the least.

Also in her email, she speak of how tired she is and depressed and makes comments about sometimes wishing she had placed her daughter with us and wonders if she shouldn't do so now. She hasn't been well at all and it's been a rough life for her and she is overwhelmed.

FOR THE RECORD: Although we certainly would take her in as opposed to her being in foster care (which may be an option...she may be apprehended like our son was), we think it would be beyond devastating to separate those two. As much as we understand the mom's limitations and her lack of judgement re: the bio dad...we would rather be supportive of the two of them making a go of it here. The little girl is 5 years old.

The bio dad will likely try to get back in the country...likely won't be allowed and she doesn't want him to.

Now...all this background is laid out because their arrival and our increased contact with our son's first mom and sister will bring about some questions that I would like to consider vs. being caught like a deer in headlights.

Why did my bio dad go to prison and get deported? (this one hasn't come up and we're pretty sure how we want to handle it...however, any suggested VERY WELCOME).

Why did she move to "country"? (to be with the pedophile and have another baby)

Why couldn't I live with her? (already addressed but more info always good)

Why did she choose bio dad over me?

Why did she keep my sister?

Why can't "sister" live with us? (he's asked that one...we reminded him she has a mom to live with already)

Any other issues you see coming up....would love to hear them.

I invite anyone who wants to contribute though I suspect this is very much something adoptees can help with.

I also know some of you would rather choke than be helpful to me but hope you will consider that I'm trying to get advice for a little boy who will have more questions soon.

Thanks all.

Well...I've put it off but lately I'm going back to the idea of vaccinating our baby son. I wanted to wait until at least 1 year old to give his little immune system some time to get it's own strength but now I'm not so sure.

We will be adopting him in the coming months and are very close to his first mom and grandmother. Both fully support my waiting or not doing it at all. They even sent me a book in support of questioning vaccination. (They have also stated they would support us if we chose to do it as well). The midwife who delivered him and cared for his first mom and dealt with us in the weeks following is also in favour of waiting at the very least.

Yet...NOT vaccinating might be an obstacle to finalizing the adoption since it is the accepted standard for public health.

He would be hit with a lot of needles his first year if we wait to start then.

As well, the whooping cough outbreak in California has me thinking harder about the risks of not immunizing him.

And there is the science behind vaccinating which I can't ignore. I'm well aware of medical bias but people in my life that I would trust with my child's life (educated people with experience in the fields of science, nutrition etc...) have been very respectful but clear in their views.

I appreciate everyone's input either way because my position to this point was one of questioning both sides because I believe there are agendas in both cases. I just didn't want to jump in without thinking about it a while.

So...I'm not sure what to do now. On the one hand, I agree the risks associated with not vaccinating are more likely to become a problem but it seems that many of these diseases can be handled in most cases. Whereas some long term damage from immunizing can't be "fixed" so easily. And the science behind most of the studies against vaccinations is weak at best.

Opinions please. I would welcome any links to properly researched reports (based on solid scientific practices).

Our son is 4 months old.

Thanks!

In taking part or visiting websites that are not adoption related but have adoption topics/sections--how do you handle the stupidity that permeates these sections?

Example...I visit a mom-friendly site that has info and forums on a million things. Just started this. Thing is...when you go to the adoption forums...there are people counting the days (literally) until "their" baby is born or wanting readers to critique their profile etc...and of course, looking for potential "birth moms" (their words...not mine).

These are mixed in with some more respectful and informative posts that try and address the complexities of adoption and does include everyone from first parents to first grandparents to adoptees etc...so there is value I suppose.

My question is basically: Do you post anything in response in the hopes that something good can come out of this or even to set the record straight (as you see it) or do you just move on to another post or do you leave it all alone?

Much as I dislike what goes on in here sometimes (behaviour not opinions or views), at least it feels...real somehow. It's like another world out there and I wouldn't have believed how "pro-adoption" society is until I came here last year and saw posts like that since then.

Thanks!

In Ontario, Canada ALL homestudies are done by Ministry approved social workers and ALL adoption applications are submitted to the Ministry for approval. Within all that are laws and restrictions against money being spent on the pregnant woman for expenses etc..., that the AP's are responsible for any and all counselling and even court involvement in an openness agreement is violated. Within the homestudy process, there are criminal checks, reference checks, medical exams and home visits.

I'm not claiming perfection at any point in this process as I'm sure there is the potential for corruption at any level.

Just wondered if private adoptions are overseen by government agencies in your State, Province or Country.

Many thanks.

What did the agreement or contract look like? Language...legal involvement...etc...? Was it very specific? What is the protocol and legal consequence of not honouring the terms? Do the courts get involved in cases where adoptive parents want to change the terms (they do here)?

I have no illusions about how "open" adoptions are often handled. I know they are not enforceable in most places. But since things do differ, could you please include the jurisdiction that applies?

Thank you everyone.

Thanks to Kidmindi for jogging my memory on wanting to ask about this.

In Canada, in what is known as the Sixties Scoop, First Nations children were apprehended from their cultural homes and families and placed with white families. The ramifications of this displacement is felt to this day and will be for generations to come.

It's my understanding that the aboriginal Peoples of the US and Australia have had similar experiences.

"The term Baby Scoop Era is similar to the term Sixties Scoop, which was coined by Patrick Johnston, author of Native Children and the Child Welfare System.[18] "Sixties Scoop" refers to the Canadian practice, beginning in the 1960s and continuing until the 1980s, of apprehending unusually high numbers of Native children from their families and fostering or adopting them out, usually into white families. A similar event happened in Australia where Aboriginal children, sometimes referred to as the Stolen Generation, were removed from their families and placed into internment camps, orphanages and other institutions."

Could you please tell me more about your knowledge of such situations where you are from? What has changed? How it's affected you or someone you know? How about your status as Native--is it recognized etc...?

I personally think this gets overlooked in our discussions about raising children from different cultures as we usually think of International Adoptions and forget about entire cultures, within our Western country borders.

Thank you everyone for your input.

I am hoping to get feedback from first parents who have been involved in an open adoption plan.

I'm well aware of the tendency of many AP's and PAP's to promise this nugget called "open adoption" and then defraud the relinquishing parents by closing the adoption. I will always believe this to be a form of fraud. I don't deny it and I hate that it happens.

These questions are for those who requested or worked out an open adoption plan.

What kind of openness did you request/work out?

Did it happen like you expected? How so?

Were you comfortable with the arrangement once it was put into place (started receiving pictures, visits etc...)?

Lastly, what could an adoptive family do or say to encourage you to have more access or at least consider more access than you requested at first? With this...I'm talking about when an adoptive family expected more or was willing to do more and the first parent asked for less.

Obviously, I'm aware you can't force anyone to be more open and you can only remind them that their requests can be changed along the way.

Just curious to hear from those who went through something like this.

Thanks for your time everyone.

Hi all,

I read an answer earlier that stated about 80% of adoptions are "sold" as OPEN for the purposes of getting the adoption through...but closed after. I'm not disputing this...I would just like to know where the numbers came from since it is such an important issue for our family.

This also got me thinking on some other facts mentioned here and if you could indulge me, I would like to have some links or references for these too.

1-2% of parents relinquish willingly without coercion etc...

The majority of relinquishing parents are in their 20's....

Any other facts that can be added to the list are welcome. I just think it would be great for some (for me certainly) to have a handful of these references on hand in one question and answer group.

Thanks everyone.

Listen, I'm trying to find some extra info for one of my answers in YA Adoptions and I fall on this:

http://www.abcadoptions.com/prosituations907.htm

If anyone wants to deny the commodification of children in adoption, they have a business in truth-proof blinders.

Yes...Walter...go at it! :)

So the real question is: How does this pass the legal smell test? I've never seen this in Canada (not denying that there are ways around if one really wants to be like this) and I presume it has a lot to do with the laws against expenses paid.

So...how is this not illegal?

Thanks everyone.

...to help a parent/parents with resources, information and support to parent their child even though adoption was being considered?

I remember an answer from someone here where she and her family, took in a young woman and assisted her within their home and supported her after she gave birth and decided to parent, despite this young woman's entry and exits from the child's life at the time. I believe this family helped her with getting assistance and housing. What stood out for me was that they wouldn't accept a decision on adoption from her until after she had a chance to parent. That's my vague recollection.

So which ones of you (or those you know of) have actually set aside what you might have wanted and did the right thing FOR that parent.

Please feel free to share the outcome as well.

Thanks.